Reports conf.calls April 2006 - Febr 2007

R:  I understand the invitation as a process.  Talking with Marianne - talking with me, decided to come even though she decided not to.  Also sent emails to all who expressed some interest.  Now a woman from Holland might come.  So why don't they open the conversation?  It is more than sending brochures.

Judy: My morning was indirectly related with WMtE. Part of it is: it is my responsibility to show up. A gathering with women... how to de-energise the fear that is holding me and potentially others back. Affirming for me. Many women say: I can't do this because... I worked with that for myself.  And it is related to this idea of not opening the conversation about the invitation and what one will pay.

E: Energy.  Something is opening up in me.  I can hardly describe it, but can sense and feel it.  One lady of 65 emails answered.  Why only one?  Maybe they think it sounds good, then delete.  So I want to bring women too.  I feel a little sad.

R:  What I did was, if they seemed interested, I sent them a personal email.  Also the ones I hoped would come.  Sent them "I hope you will come.  Invite them into the conversation".

J: Can we do more to re-connect?

R:  At least 3 or 4 will answer, I hope over the weekend.

J: Margot might still come... continuing to find small ways to encourage people.

R:  Money should not be an obstacle.  We are clear that they can pay what they can afford.  But they still hesitate.

E: A new way of doing business that you can negotiate about the price.  They may not let it in or understand it.

J: Indeed, it is new. People are not comfortable with it. "I have to do the right thing." there seems to be a lot of discomfort. Is this the main reason?

R:  Received an email from Helen. She has one more and working on another.

Tina and Margot a question mark?   Another ? is Monica and another is Sylvia.

Whoever shows up are the right people.  And Judith (from the venue) is probably coming.

Open Space principle: Whoever shows up, are the right people.

J: Expect it to happen: move into the place that it is actually happening! Not believing the messages in my head... it is going to happen...

Witches in the US, early colonial time... women and girls ... (part of discussion about witches and millions of women dying in Europe)

R: Emails to all for people who are coming.  Send welcome letter to those who have paid.

• Judy to develop a slightly different letter to those who are maybe coming.  Judy will have 2 letters ready by Tuesday Feb. 6.
• Judy will make sure Zaadz is ready for others.  Eugenie and Ria to add comments or topics to WMtE Pod.  (worked on this while on the call)
• Ria has all the ideas for design in her mind.  We will begin to work on that.
• Eugenie will send welcome letter (when complete) to one who have paid.
• We will make sure we all have the emails for each woman who registers.

J:  Proposal to meditate on the triangle of the three of us, with a golden light. Can be energising!  To energise the event – I am energising 20 women.

hello,

your conversation is inspiring and i look forward to diving more deeply into it as time allows.  but i wanted to share something from the field that felt so much in alignment with the vision you are holding.  it's through the berkana institute which hosts the art of hosting workshops and trainings.  meg wheatley is coming to seattle and this is part of her current focus with the women's leadership revival tour!!!  :))))  how can one resist that.

http://www.berkana.org/women/

love from seattle, sheri

 Silence

Check-in

Eugenie:  Thoughts about holding back.  Writing book.  Worried that others will attack me.  Only people will disagree and fight my ideas.  Why make an effort?  Struggling because don't know if it's true.

R:  Could you find out where this assumption is coming from?

E: Where am I holding back? I'm so different and no one will show up when I organize something. Daily life.  Thoughts always changing.  Talking to others I feel very alone because they think differently.  I can understand them and they don't understand me.  Not in balance.  Not equal.

R:  I want you as you are in our group.  I want your energy and intensity.

E:  In daily life I hold back.  I am gentle.  When I bring in my whole power they run.  I don't want that.  I don't want to be alone.  So have to adjust to the energy of others.  I feel sad about that.

Ria: I am into organizing this art of hosting - invoices, letters, etc.  Dealing with organizational stuff, big puzzle.  Since I am into that, women and leadership are not in the front of mind.

R: We had a last conversation about the MtE in Oct. with the convening team.  I tried to voice what I found missing.  There did not seem to be true engagement in a mutual process - not enough between the 4 of us to go the real core of the gathering.  We didn't manage to get to the fundamental level.  I couldn't really get my message across - at least not totally.  So if we women keep postponing until we know what we bring, that  will be great.  We may need to postpone.

Judy: Nothing specific first for check-in. Now: MtE not deep engagement: we can learn from that. We can and will know when we move forward. We need to feel and sense on a deep level that we are committed. When I step back, Women and Leadership is needed. When being out: Could this be something that is meaningful?

J: cfr E. moving out of the comfort zone (holding back) is a lifelong process. A lot of people in my life think differently than I do. I'm Ok with that now. There is a time and place to come forward with that. My family will not understand, never. Some beauty in there too; to have that level of awareness. There will be people who understand: the participants of our program!

R:  SDi - can be green that wants to belong.  Or in psychology the child that wants to be seen.  Important to know that I am coming from a higher consciousness.  I can understand them and they don't understand me.

E: Thinking that way : I'm struggling with that. It is very arrogant!  Not comfortable acknowledging I am in higher perspective.  More responsibility.  Have to move on and deal in a different way.

J: Difficult to have this perspective in Holland.

R:  If you can rest in knowing it and not having to tell that you know better, then just act accordingly.  Can still be friendly and respectful and don't have to fight for that you know more.  Inner child needs to be at ease.

E: Two friends: they have a lot of friends which they don't agree with. How can they live with that? They won't tell each other that something is "wrong".  I was completely shocked. I would say that I don't understand!! When I ask something about it; they experience it as an attack. To connect with them is holding back for me.

Hard to accept when I feel very deeply about something.  Must allow the higher consciousness in me to open up to this truth, and let it in.

R:  and with that goes a deep respect for cultures and group who do it differently.  It's honoring their fate.  Learned from family constellations.  Honoring the fate of others.  If it is your neighbor or other cultures, it's not just doing nothing, but a deep respect for whatever is working in and through other people that we do not have a clue about.  To talk about the emotions is already green.  You can guide them to another level in their evolution.  the higher perspective  gives this kind of responsibility to respect where other  people are even if we do not understand where you are and strongly disagree.

E: Inside I struggle when I cannot say anything.

R:  So write your book for the ones who will read it and understand it.

E:  I don't feel respect for people who are hurting others (like circumcision).

R: I can see the little boy or girl in the adult who is being violent and who does not feel respected herself.

R:  Do what you can where you can make a difference.  That's part of yellow.  Team up with people where you can do something meaningful.

E: When I was young I could look at a lot of violence and I could overlook it. Now that I am older I feel what I see; that's a big difference.  My heart is bleeding about abortion. I don't have advice; dealing with the pain in my heart; I feel the violence. I cannot feel peace.  How do you deal with that?

R:  Who are we as humans to say that this little life in the womb does not have meaning? (Hellinger?)  What do we know about the soul?  of the child? or the Parents?  What is a Soul perspective, not a personality perspective.

E: What is the difference with Green? I don't know! I see pain when I see violence!!

J:  It is both/and; instead of either/or. It is such a paradox, a paradox of life. if I walk at the sea shore and see the broken wing of the seagull: I feel the pain. I also realise that my purpose here is other than saving seagulls. Part of the cycle of life and death. People do great harm to each other. Finding the place where I can make a difference. For me it is important to understand other cultures and wear different hats at the same time. their life brought them to that point; maybe I can bring them to their next step. Where is the little way in?

E: I know I cannot change them? How do I deal with people directly? I don't have an answer to that...

R: It has to do with being able to hold the intensity of the pain, the intensity of life, and hold it for yourself and being with the pain.  I don't look at TV.  And turn away from people who are aggressive - Parents aggressive to children in the market.  I give the children a bright look and turn away.  It’s about being able to hold the pain.

J:  Sending some light to 'the victim'.  I struggle with whether to say something to these parents too (who are aggressive with children in store)

R:  What has this to do with Women and Leadership? Us struggling with when do we come forward; when do we take a stand? When do you hold back? That's women's struggle.

J: I sense we probably have more hesitancy than men, because they are thought to be more assertive...

R: Fullness of life, energy, about intensity.  But have to accept the deep pain of intensity as well.

E:  When they are on my couch I don't know what to do.  Hold back. Nothing I can say or do.

R:  Could be a wise decision, not a holding back.

E:  So there is a difference between holding back and shutting your mouth, OK.

J: :From my cultural studies: in the Netherlands they are on the far edge of talking directly. When I lived there, I was shocked! I was brought up to always be nice. The lesson of learning can be: when to be direct and do it appropriately for the situation.

Final remarks:   Zaadz: OK. R and E will have to add a profile.  Judy will set up a Pod for conversation.

Ria will be at the Art of Hosting and will tell about that on the next call.  Agreed there is probably lots we can learn from that.

Women Moving the Edge
Call on Sept. 6, 2006
Eugenie and Judy

Eugenie's yahoo women's group is having real difficulties, judging, talking meanly, accusing one another, all being heard with no limits.  Anger and accusations. Not supportive.  Don't want to be told what to do.  Very green in allowing all voices, no matter what, to be heard.  Maybe regressing to red.  Eugenie, as the list moderator and owner, had ignored this at first not wanting to give energy to the negative.  It did not stop. She decided to take leadership and said that is was not right.  Now they are angry with her and accusing her.  So she is really struggling with how to be with them and what to do.  We had some discussion around the greenness of this, the mean green in Holland.  There might be something to look at here when we gather as women, in terms of leadership and how to do that in these difficult types of situations.

Judy is also looking at her struggle with leadership.  For this WMtE convening group, Ria really has been the one to spearhead this.  Judy is happy to collaborate, to support, to participate.  Taking a leading role is harder, there is hesitancy, so this continues to come up.  And yet, Judy is very energized and excited to be working to bring women together, especially in a collective way.

Judy had written, in the interim, about holding back because she wanted to be liked by other women.  Eugenie realized she has this “wanting to be liked” also, and she sees it especially since this happened with women on the yahoo group.  She never realized this until reading it in Judy's words.  She realizes that she longs to connect.  In the Yahoo group she is not able to do it in a way that makes her happy.  She sounded very disappointed about that.

Regarding Ria’s idea that maybe a workshop for women is a better thing to offer, and not do something so like Moving the Edge, Judy and Eugenie, discussed this and saw possibilities.  Some of the discussion was:  Coming into circle invites the attitude to be nice, to be in harmony, and to lose the power.  Then there may be no leadership or the energy to move is lost.  Is the answer a workshop?  Coming into a circle knowing that women have a tendency to seek harmony or might move into inertia, not daring to take leadership, and that the energy will shut down - this could be part of what is brought into the circle and worked with and then things could change.

We had a discussion around just waiting for whatever wants to emerge to come.  Eugenie has lived lots of days where she was just waiting to see what emerged, or what wanted to happen.  And it was most often nothing, and very empty, and boring, and losing energy.  It does not feel healthy.  The life force is not there.

We agreed that this can happen if we just let whatever wants to emerge happen without some direction, or leadership, or guidance, or purpose (or maybe question).  There is no real freedom without some boundaries.  There needs to be space that is not completely open.  To live freely in the room, you need the walls.  If there are no walls, there is no room.  Where there are no boundaries, you can get lost.  It does not feel right to play with energies in that way.  We can enter into grayness without walls and it is difficult to come out of it.

We talked a bit about having varying formats for a women’s gathering.  The possibility of each of us creating and taking leadership for a part of the time, or for a type of activity or discussion.  And yet being open to emergent needs in the group.  If one thing seems to want more time or attention, to let that grow and happen.  So to allow emergence when it has life and energy – but not to just sit back and wait for it.  This could be in a circle (or circles) or in other ways as well.  We could explore various ways of creating direction (some boundaries) and discover what really speaks to the women there.  Is there a way that is calling women?  How will we come forward?

Before the next call:

We agreed to look further into ourselves to see what holds us back from leadership.  We also agreed to think about different ways of coming together with women that would have life and could energize something new. 

Our next call is scheduled for Sept. 20 at 8 in the evening in Europe (2 PM Eastern US)

June 26, 2006 Women Moving the Edge 

Skype call notes

Ria rings the bells and calls us into silence.

Check-in:

Tina: Grateful for silence.

Just had dinner with Jan, Finn and Martin. They have been working on making the website for MtE.  Excited by the work they did these last days. Gaining clarity. Confidence in this kind of work; we will do this work! It might make it easier for us.

I am a bit tired, head is going slow - is good.  Closing of MtE: was very powerful. Along with the CIPI meetings: healing and integrating polarities, stepping into my potential; more clarity. Doing an ongoing flow game inquiry, on my initiative; braveness as an issue is gone.

Judy: liking the silence, I have been pushing myself to finish this thesis, disciplined myself. I am honored to be in the field with you, appreciating being with women. Excited and scared to think of stepping into what this Women Moving the Edge can be.

Eugenie:  Learning new thinks about the silence, especially when being with my children. The last couple of days I have been working with this non violent communication with my kids, but the fighting did not stop.  Told them I do not like the fighting.  So I asked the older one, “Do you like these fights?” No. “Why do you fight?”  He said, Oh, its part of life.  I decided to stop intervening and to become silent.  They continued to fight.  Then the fighting slowly started to disappear.  And today there was none at all.  My son said, I think it is because of you.  They didn't fight because I didn't say anything.  I was only watching.  I was silent.  I realized the power of silence.  I realized at the start of this session, there is nothing to say.  I don't need to speak. I like the silence.  I remember how great silence is.

Tina:  Finn was looking forward to MtE meeting.  Ria didn't come.  Then he saw the perspective of being 4 men in a little cottage.  I asked if there was a special quality of the men being together.  I went to call and they said they were talking about what I had been thinking.  Why is Women MtE only for women? So I bring this in as an interesting inquiry.  To put light on the collective ego.  Could the process go deeper if only women were participating?  Also I cherish the idea of opportunity for men to be in an inquiry on women taking leadership.

Ria: It is fascinating because this issue was somewhere at the edge of my awareness yesterday and today.  And I think there can be some value in that - Inviting men around the topic of women's leadership.   But also, or and, there is value in being together as women and looking as deeply as we can together.

E: There is a beautiful quality to both - it would be different. It could be next time.  We could do both.  One without and one with, to explore both. My gut says start with women only.

Tina:  It has different qualities.  Think we could go deeper into what it is like to be a woman if there are not men.  So I also think that it's good that we have been asked by the men.  Two of them identify with the struggles I have had.  I think that on a biological level that is something they don't know. Something they do not experience.  We should start with women only.

Ria:  Recent skype talk with David R.  He had idea of organizing something like MTE but for couples.  Maybe next who knows.

J:  To me what is exiting about this, is the opportunity to be with other women. I will feel freer and more committed if we are only women. I like to have men included in my life, but I would like to explore the territory for women only.

Ria: We were talking that these gatherings like MTE. We name the masculine as spirit coming in.  But what is the complement for the feminine.  Being able to embody the field where the spirit can become manifest.  The deeper layers of holding the field are needed for higher vibrations of spirit.

J: That reminds me of the solstice ceremony: the earth as receiving and the sun.

Ria: Should we enter into talking about the practical things? (for Women Mte)

J: Yes, as much as I like this conversation of inquiring.  I also think we should look into the practical.  Is Europe really that expensive? (as the location in Denmark was)

Ria: I checked with the venu in Belgium.  The dates beginning on Sunday November, 26 till the 29.

J: A little bit difficult traveling that weekend because of Thanksgiving holiday in US.

R: I will ask for other dates! A week after?

T: Dec. 3 - 6, or we could start at Saturday?

J:  Or starting Friday the first and going until Tuesday?

R:  Web site.  Could we use e-nexus?  New web site for MTE - www.movingtheedge.org.

  Not sure why or if linked to e-nexus.

R: We don't know. We could go from there, don't know if we should.

To be practical it would be good.  Tina, can you gather the information about why they did that and come back with info around that?

Tina will gather information about how the CT did and why they did that and then write the information

R:  We talked about invitation last time.  Maybe it is good to go deeper into it next call.  Look into each sentence and we can finish it.

T:  Going deep into the invitation next time - every sentence

R: If I look at the invitation Finn, Martin and Jan did, I can see that they really went deeply into it. I think we should do that next. How we can really bring the message out to other people.

J: What if someone else wants to join us. We are called a convening team right? We will need help. Someone has expressed interest and she has some experience.

Should we ask others to be in the convening team? What do we say to people who ask?

R:  It will actualize as we move forward: the right people will show up and ask us.

T: When we clarify the invitation, then we can have clarity about what kind of women we can attract.  That will make it easier to connect with them.

R: Next call: Monday July 3rd; 10pm Denmark: 9pm London; 4pm Judy?

T: Thinking about making this my work.  Concerned about becoming too mental.  Want to include body and sensing.

Beneath is a resume of the latest phone meeting in the ongoing inquiry on Women Moving the Edge that took place on may 2.  Attendees were Judy, Ria and Tina.
Please join the inquiry if you feel called.
_________________________________________________________
 
Beginning with silence
 
Check in:
Judy: As I sat in silence I came to think about that something that happened this week. I am contemplating things while I am writing my thesis for the Conscious Evolution program. A woman, Marie, whom I have known for a long time and who was a very close and special friend to my father, died this past Sunday. It is interesting to watch how people handle death, and I am thinking about how I will handle it. Thinking about how she was a gift to my father and me and our family. Thinking about how she lived her life: How a life can be for a woman who does not have children and has not been married as it is the same for me. She was a very loving person, and always appeared with a silent presence. I acknowledge her and feel blessed to have known her. That is in my background thinking lately and now. A beautiful thing.
 
We were cut off.
 
Ria: Has been in Germany for a conference on Collective Wisdom. There is a lot to process, a lot that is still present. It was very good to see how many women were presenters and participants.
Has been waiting for Tina to post the notes from the last meeting but then realized that I forgot to send them, though convinced I had done it. So compiling notes are still to be done.
 
Tina: In a stage of  ‘worrying go-round’ about the future. The question I am holding is – what do I have to contribute with and how? Been in a group of 15 people from Thursday until Sunday. A kind of group process gathered around a female therapist that I have joined for many years. It is interesting to see how the work has undergone a transformation from having a formal leader who lines out the process to step down from that position and participate in the process in another way. Interesting to see something going from therapy into something bigger and different.  That’s how I would describe it.
 
Judy: Tina, last time you were talking about the paradox or dicotonomy maybe - of the personal and the impersonal, the feminine and the masculine, or therapy and the spiritual. Is this what you are struggling with now? I think you referred to a paradox of therapy and the spiritual?  This is related to what I am inquiring into in my thesis, the personal and the impersonal.  I define the personal as the separate self sense, the one always concerned about itself, and the impersonal as the bigger perspective, including the personal, but so much more, more expansive, more whole.  So there is no real duality. What I am really struggling with is whether the personal is a gate to the impersonal.
 
Tina: What I mean is that the perspective I hold on the process is forming the meaning I make out of things. If I am categorizing something into therapy or spirituality or intellectual versus bodywork, I am the one who is introducing a possible limitation. That is what is alive in me - how I interpret what is going on, and what it means to call it personal or non-personal.  There is an aspect of it that makes sense when it comes to guide a process or stress certain structures in the work that invite something up and leave out something else. It is possible to view anything as both personal or impersonal but it is the perspective the individual holds on the experience that matters. 
 
Judy: You were talking about that everything is always seen from a certain perspective and that maybe everything is interpretation. Elizabeth Debold has been talking to me about the post modern trap of seeing everything as perspective, everything is relative, and so there is nothing that is real, nothing is true, it all depends upon how we perceive something.  So that if I offer an idea or thought, someone else can say well, that is just your perspective.  Then we are in this wasteland where nothing has truth or meaning, all is only one’s perception.
 
Tina: I am not going relative here; it’s not Boomeritis, where everything is relative. The Boomerities tried to take down hierarchies and ran into trouble, because the relativism comes short when it comes to relativism itself since what is not relative is that everything is relative.  From this perspective it means that I cannot truly believe in something and at the same time you can truly believe in something else because then at least one of us most be wrong. 
It is not that. I am looking into that nobody really knows, but we can believe.  I sometimes do believe in something. But then it is more a feeling of meaningfulness. It is an experience of meaningfulness and that everything is as it should be. And then I can begin to interpret that experience of meaningfulness, as many of us do much of the time. We interpret the feeling of meaningfulness.  It is not that one concept is as good as another when I interpret an experience. I am getting more and more interested in experiencing this meaningfulness. And I try to approach it from a place beyond concepts, beyond words because I have trouble when trying to experience meaningfulness from a conceptual level.
 
Ria: In our last conversation I told that in the women’s movement we said that the personal is political; that whatever you do it has a political aspect. In that sense the choices I make are very personal. If we live a spiritual life it is also a very personal or individual choice.
 
Judy: While writing my thesis I have come to understand the importance of being careful about the uses of the words for instance the ‘personal’ and the ‘individual.’ The personal is separation; it is self-concern, self-centeredness, ego.  The way I use individual is that each personal is unique and distinct.  An individual is not necessarily concerned only with self.  An individual can make a choice to not personalize. How do we stop ourselves from becoming personal and limiting ourselves?
 
Ria: Women moving the edge, how does that relate to this?
Judy: We are women.

Ria: There are two things I collected from this conference. In the conference we formed a group from the Collective Wisdom Initiative. With one woman I was talking about models like Spiral Dynamics, the U Process, etc. and the core of the conversation was: Let us do the models, let us not just explain, but live them.  Just apply them in all that you do. There is some frustration sometimes that Peter Senge and even Otto Scharmer are so mental.  I see the value of models and concepts, but we somehow or sometimes lose the experience. Like Tina, I am interested in experiencing this meaningfulness. Last week I bought a book by Christian De Quincey, called Radical Knowing.  He describes mental or reason-based knowing as one out of four ways of knowing. The other three are: the mystical intuition, the shamanic feeling-based and the sensoric or measurable (science) kind of knowing. It is somehow related.

Judy: I do think that all these models are mental and intellectual. What I might be hearing is that we are talking about something else, about the heart. After the course in Conscious Evolution, I want to expand beyond the mental.  I think it is related to Heart (the Head and the Heart) and that may be what the feminine brings in. The past two years in this course I have the feeling that something is missing. Andrew Cohen’s teaching is profound. There is a certain perspective, but I also feel that something is missing and maybe it is that he has a masculine approach.
Ria: Before looking into that: How can we balance that, or manage to have an approach that is more whole? Elizabeth Debold is coming to Amsterdam in 2 weeks and I will go and see her with this in mind.
Judy: I am experiencing something that may be very American, and it is often women.  There can be so much talking, talking about nothing.  Just hearing themselves talk. I feel that I am wasting my time. I don’t want to spend my time in these meaningless conversations. There is a thing that we as women have been taught and that is to be nice, to make others feel good, not to hurt anyone’s feelings.  So we spend our time saying nice things, and we don’t say anything very authentic or meaningful.  I don’t want to spend m time like that anymore.  I don’t sense so much of this “being nice” in Europe.  It seems more OK to be honest. We here are very conditioned.  It may also have to do with that inner core, that place deep inside, that Andrew speaks about where women, at some level, know they could be in danger.  They may not be safe.  It is a very deep fear that we hold.  So we have to keep harmony, keep everyone happy, preserve relationships and family.  Don’t make waves or upset anyone.
 
Tina: Being nice comes down to form meaning that we get stuck in a certain way or form of being together.  We have different ways. How to create a community that can in a non-judgmental way embrace all kinds of forms? And how can I learn to be respectful and yet to leave when I am wasting my time and others time?
Ria: It seems that women go out in social organization and in non-governmental organizations. It seems that for going out in business and politics we have to reclaim again that business and politics are ‘social’ areas.
Judy:  It is interesting.  My perception is that business in Europe is much more of a social organization than in the US.  In Europe the corporation has some responsibility to the society, to the good of the whole.  In the US, the corporation exists primarily for profit, not necessarily good to people.  I worked for many years in corporate environments, but felt like I was selling my soul.  Finally I just couldn’t do it anymore.  I was losing my soul.
 
Ria: What I see is that women feel comfortable in social organizations, but that there seems to be a hurdle for women to go into business and for business to see itself as a social thing.
In the conference there was a woman who did a lecture on ’Feeding the demon’, instead of fighting the demon. She used an old Tantric story. She did an exercise with us, using visualisation: see the demon before you, then blend with it, give your nectar to feed the demon, blend energies.
For me it was a very deep experience. I come from the working class and I have never had lots of money. I took this issue of not having enough money as my demon. I realized that I have to go into big business to do some healing. I do not have a clue what it looks like.
 

Tina: I think it is an interesting approach - visualize your demon. I tend to separate business as if it were a daemon in itself, instead of seeing it as powerful, energetic and important vehicle of energy that needs to be, but that we need to be careful with. It is a big issue in Denmark from time to time that women leaders are under represented. The question is then why so few women enter business and politics. It is often said that when women become leaders they do it on male premises. Then they can be called ‘ice queens’, which means something cynical and cold.

Judy:  From a cultural perspective Denmark is seen as a feminine culture, valuing family, children, and nurturance.  So maybe that is part of what is going on. It seems wrong for a woman to be in business.  She is supposed to be nurturing children.

I also think that business needs the energy that women can bring, the feminine, maybe it is the wholeness we can bring.

Ria: I think what it means is that if we as women go into business or politics we really need our circle, not necessarily circles of only women but a tight, close circle to helps us and supports us.
Judy: Maybe we need to build upon what we have always been told Women are so good at: Relationships.
 
For closing find one of two closing sentences:
 
Ria: The weaving together of the meaning of – a collective inquiry weaving together, that is what I like most and is present with me now.
Tina: My question is: What are holding women back from entering business and politics?
Another is: What kind of forms can business work take other than mental, verbal, and intellectual?
Judy: our conversation has been building wholeness, How can we invite wholeness into what seems to be unfriendly areas like business?